Trail Runner Nation

Accomplished ultrarunners Bob Crowley and Tim Twietmeyer return to Trail Runner Nation to explore an intriguing evolution of trail running: using our fitness not just to race, but to experience history on foot. What began as an attempt to retrace the Donner Party’s Forlorn Hope escape route grew into History Expeditions, combining meticulous historical research with trail runners' ability to reach remote places and test theories on the ground. Bob and Tim explain how standing on the terrain can reveal what books and maps miss, sometimes even challenging long-held assumptions about historical routes. The conversation also explores the remarkable endurance of people like the members of the Forlorn Hope and Snowshoe Thompson, whose feats make some modern endurance accomplishments look surprisingly comfortable. Most importantly, Bob and Tim argue that runners don't need to organize a massive expedition to try this themselves. A little curiosity, some local history, and a pair of running shoes can turn the trail you've run a hundred times into an entirely new adventure.

LINKS

Harvest & Howitzer backyard Ultra

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Get 20% off with code TRN20

Timestamps

02:04 | How History Expeditions Began
A book about the Donner Party sparks an idea that eventually becomes nearly a decade of researching and retracing historic routes.
08:16 | When the Books Get It Wrong

Bob and Tim discover that physical terrain can challenge historical assumptions, giving trail runners a unique role as boots-on-the-ground researchers.

11:29 | A New Kind of Trail Running?

The conversation shifts from individual expeditions to a bigger question: could history-based exploration become another branch of trail and ultrarunning?

24:16 | Running Through History

From Western States to ancient routes, Bob and Tim reveal how runners have been following historically significant paths far longer than most of us realize.

32:36 | Were They Tougher Than Us?

The physical feats of the Forlorn Hope, Snowshoe Thompson, and other historical figures put modern endurance into fascinating perspective.

42:42 | How to Create Your Own History Run

Bob and Tim explain why you don't need a team of historians or years of research. Start with something that makes you curious, learn the story, build a route, and go experience it.

59:39 | Bringing History Into a Race

History Expeditions reveals the Harvest and Howitzer Backyard Ultra, designed to combine running, local history, and community on historically significant land.

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Scott trades his usual host chair for the guest seat to share what happened during five weeks on the Camino de Santiago, with his son Ryan joining him for the final 300 kilometers. What looked on paper like manageable 15-to-20-mile days became a lesson in cumulative fatigue, infected blisters, carrying a pack, and doing it all again the next morning. Along the way, Scott discovered something unexpected: weeks of slow, steady walking left him remarkably fit, dropping his resting heart rate by 10 beats and making his first run home feel almost effortless. But the real story became the people, from more than 100 meaningful encounters to intimate conversations with complete strangers and friendships that crossed languages and cultures. Scott and Ryan reflect on the Camino’s central lesson that everyone walks their own path, and how that idea challenged Scott to trade judgment for a little more grace. The Camino ultimately became something bigger than a 500-mile adventure, showing how endurance fitness can take us far beyond races and into experiences that may actually change how we live.

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Get 20% off with code TRN20

Timestamps

03:19 | This Is Not a Race
Scott explains the thousand-year history of the Camino and how it took several days to turn off his trail-racer instinct to chase, pass, and monitor pace.
09:50 | What Do You Carry for 500 Miles?

From a sub-20-pound pack to albergues, hand-washed clothes, earplugs, eye masks, and rain gear, Scott explains what daily life on the Camino actually looks like.

23:23 | The People Become the Story

Scott describes more than 100 meaningful encounters and how strangers from around the world quickly moved past small talk into remarkably personal conversations.

43:43 | Ryan Joins the Camino

Ryan arrives for the final 300 kilometers, bringing a fresh perspective, some early IT-band trouble, and an unforgettable stretch of father-son time.

48:16 | Harder Than an Ultrarunner Expected

Fifteen to 20 miles sounds manageable until it becomes roughly 100 miles a week, every week, with a pack and no traditional recovery days.

51:29 | No Running, Better Fitness?

After five weeks of walking, Scott returns home noticeably fitter, runs his usual loop about a minute per mile faster, and reports a 10-beat drop in resting heart rate.

58:40 | The Lesson of the Empty Cup

Scott and Ryan unpack the deeper lessons of the Camino: doing hard things, giving people more grace, letting others find their own path, and realizing that endurance adventures don’t need a bib or a finish-line clock to matter.

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Matt Fitzgerald returns to Trail Runner Nation to talk about his deeply personal book Dying to Run: An Athlete’s Quest for One More Finish and the long COVID diagnosis that transformed his life as a runner. After more than three years without running, Matt signed up for a 100K desert ultra, Javalina Hundred, despite believing he had only about a 10 percent chance of even making it to the start line. The conversation explores how he cautiously rebuilt enough fitness to attempt the race, but the bigger story is how he redefined success from achieving a result to refusing to let his disease decide who he could be. Matt talks candidly about running as identity, community, addiction, and something that left a hole nothing else could completely fill when it disappeared. He also explains how Stoicism helped him accept reality without surrendering to it, and how suffering became something he could use rather than simply something he had to escape. Most powerfully, Matt says he would make the same choices again, even knowing long COVID was waiting for him, because removing the hardship would also remove the person he became through it.

LINKS

Dream Run Camp

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Timestamps

00:00 – When Running Is Taken Away
Matt explains how long COVID ended his running for more than three years and why he eventually committed to a 100K desert ultra despite still being sick.
05:14 – Living With Long COVID

Matt describes the neurological symptoms, post-exertional crashes, loss of function, and the realization that “recovery” may never mean returning to his old body.

09:32 – Training With a 10% Chance of Starting

Forty pounds above his former racing weight and badly deconditioned, Matt begins with walking and tries to carefully build just enough fitness without triggering another major setback.

19:22 – The Voices That Tell Us to Stop

The conversation turns to suffering, pride, competitiveness, and the surprising realization that Matt’s biggest struggle wasn't quitting, but accepting that he could no longer perform like the athlete he once was.

23:25 – When Running Becomes Your Identity

Matt wrestles with an uncomfortable question: what happens when running isn't simply something you do, but a central piece of who you are?

28:03 – Stoicism, Suffering and Redefining Success

Matt explains how Stoic ideas helped him face reality without self-pity and redefine success around how he responded to circumstances rather than what he accomplished.

47:12 – Who Are You Without the Circus?

Matt reflects on a lifetime of achievement, his changing definition of happiness, Dream Run Camp, and why he would still choose the path that led to long COVID because of what the experience ultimately taught him.

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In this new Aging As An Athlete episode with Krissy Moehl, Coach Kirk Keller has been running since 1974, and nearly six decades later, he’s still training, racing, coaching, and figuring things out. He joins The Nation to talk about one of the hardest lessons for aging athletes: the training that worked years ago may not be the training your body needs today. The conversation covers consistency, recovery, RPE, mental training, durability, and the danger of comparing today’s pace to an earlier version of yourself. Kirk also shares a fresh lesson from the Bridger Ridge Run, where tired legs forced him to reconsider his own recovery and training load, proving that even an experienced coach still has to keep rewriting the playbook. Krissy adds her perspective on how experience, durability, life stress, and smarter recovery have changed her approach to training in her 40s. The bigger message is encouraging: aging changes the athlete, but it can also bring wisdom, perspective, problem-solving skills, and a deeper appreciation for simply being out there.

LINKS:

Kirk Keller Coaching

Krissy Moehl Coaching and Races

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

Timestamps

02:43 – Why Coach 40+ Athletes?
Kirk explains what makes older athletes so rewarding to coach, including their commitment, clear goals, and occasional tendency to do too much.
07:35 – Can We Still Get Faster as We Age?

The group examines age, previous training history, accumulated mileage, and why personal bests mean something different depending on when someone began running.

12:58 – Consistency, Durability, and Training After 40

Kirk identifies consistency as a major predictor of success and explains why older athletes may need a flatter, more patient approach to building toward big goals.

29:58 – The Biggest Mistake Aging Athletes Make

Kirk argues that denying the effects of age can hold runners back, while accepting change creates room to adjust and keep doing meaningful things on the trail.

34:54 – Why RPE Becomes More Valuable With Age

They discuss using perceived effort instead of chasing old splits, giving runners a more useful way to measure effort across changing terrain and changing bodies.

37:28 – Training the Aging Runner’s Brain

Kirk explains why mental skills remain trainable and how runners can recognize negative thoughts, verbalize them, and replace them during difficult moments.

43:38 – A Coach Learns His Own Recovery Lesson

After struggling early at the Bridger Ridge Run, Kirk realizes he had stacked hard training too closely together and needs to rethink recovery at age 67. The conversation expands into durability, wisdom, changing expectations, and the value of continually experimenting with training as we age.

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Caffeine is one of the most researched performance aids in sport, but Dr. Neil Clarke says its biggest misconception is that it works the same way for everyone. The research strongly supports caffeine for endurance performance, yet the right dose, timing, and delivery method can vary dramatically from one runner to another. Clarke explains how caffeine can reduce perceived effort and pain, increase motivation, and potentially help athletes sustain performance longer. The conversation covers coffee versus pills, gels and gum, caffeine during ultras, sleep, withdrawal, and why cutting caffeine before a race may not provide the boost many runners expect. For trail and ultrarunners, the most useful takeaway is surprisingly simple: start with a low dose, test it in training, and look for the smallest amount that improves performance without creating side effects.

LINKS

Dr. Neil Clarke LinkedIn

Researchgate

BCU Research Profile

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Timestamps

01:01 | The Biggest Caffeine Myth

Dr. Neil Clarke explains why caffeine doesn't work the same way for every athlete and why runners need to treat themselves as an experiment of one.

08:33 | Finding the Right Dose

The research points toward general dosing guidelines, but genetics, sensitivity, training status, and side effects can dramatically change what works for an individual runner.

10:13 | Coffee, Pills, Gels or Gum?

Neil compares common caffeine sources and explains why delivery method can affect how quickly runners feel the benefits.

20:17 | Should You Quit Caffeine Before a Race?

The popular strategy of reducing caffeine before race day gets challenged, including the potential downside of withdrawal symptoms.

28:17 | How Caffeine Actually Improves Performance

Caffeine can affect motivation, pain perception and perceived effort, helping explain why hard running may feel more manageable.

32:29 | Using Caffeine During an Ultra

For a 50K or longer event, Neil discusses starting doses, mid-race top-ups, course timing, and why runners need to test their strategy before race day.

48:26 | Build Your Own Caffeine Strategy

Neil finishes with a practical approach: start low, gradually experiment, and find the smallest dose that produces a benefit without unwanted side effects.

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