Running long - A trail and ultra running talk

Days before lining up at Black Canyon 100K, Francesco Puppi sits down with Moisés Jiménez and Max Keith for a deep dive into training philosophy, double-threshold blocks, and what he learned from living and training alongside Jim Walmsley in Arizona.
This conversation centers on performance — not hype.
Francesco breaks down what he saw firsthand inside Jim’s preparation: Norwegian-style double threshold days, lactate testing between reps, treadmill precision at 7,000 feet, and the detailed charts mapping grade-adjusted pace to real-world effort. They unpack how controlled treadmill sessions can sharpen fitness — and where that approach may fall short when it comes to downhill durability and technical trail adaptation.
They explore:
What double-threshold training actually looks like (5x6min uphill + 10x3min controlled efforts)
Why Jim measures lactate mid-workout — and what he’s looking for
How to build aerobic power without going “all out”
The pros and limitations of treadmill-based performance blocks
Translating controlled lab-style fitness into chaotic desert terrain
Francesco also shares how his own training differs — why he prioritizes eccentric load, downhill strength, and trail specificity — and how he’s integrating lessons from Arizona without abandoning his system.
The conversation shifts into race execution: sodium strategies, heat adaptation ahead of Western States, passive vs. active heat training, and the discomfort of Black Canyon’s rolling, relentless terrain. They discuss how early-season American racing forces athletes to sharpen fitness in January and February — and whether that’s sustainable long term.
If you’re interested in the how behind elite performance — the data, the structure, the experimentation, and the honest doubts — this episode delivers a rare look inside high-level ultra preparation.
What you’ll learn
The structure of Jim Walmsley’s double-threshold block
How lactate testing shapes workout intensity
Why treadmill precision can accelerate aerobic gains
The missing pieces when training indoors for trail ultras
Heat and sodium strategies for Western States-style racing
How to evolve your system without overhauling it
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
🏃‍♂️ Want to train smarter, not harder?
Use code RUNNINGLONG30 for 30% off your first month of Vert.run training.
📲 Follow @vert.run
Download the app and start your personalized training at Vert.run
Francesco’s links:Instagram | X | Strava | Website

Diving into the state of trail running in 2025, Francesco Puppi and Max Keith sit down for a wide-ranging, honest, and deeply insightful conversation about where the sport is headed — and what it feels like to live through this moment of rapid transformation.
From debates around pacers and fair competition, to the explosion of content, technology, and brand involvement in trail running, they reflect on the challenges, the opportunities, and the responsibility that comes with a sport growing faster than ever.
They also open up about the athletes who inspired them this year — from world-class performances at UTMB and Worlds, to breakthrough storytellers on YouTube and Substack — and unpack what makes certain moments and people truly stand out.
Francesco shares how his own training has evolved after Worlds, how he’s approaching winter with a fresh VO₂max block, and why Western States 2026 is quietly becoming his north star. Max, meanwhile, talks about crewing, pacing, fairness, and how the culture of the sport shapes the choices we make on race day.
If you love trail running — not just the racing, but the community, the culture, and the conversations that shape it — this episode will feel like sitting around a table with two friends who live and breathe this world.

What you’ll learn
• Why the debate around pacers is more complex than it seems
• How money, livestreaming, and brand involvement are reshaping the sport
• The performances that defined 2024–2025 (and why they mattered)
• Why content — from YouTube to Substack — is pushing trail running forward
• Francesco’s return to structured training and his path toward Western States
• The trends that will shape the next decade of trail running

🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

🏃‍♂️ Want to train smarter, not harder?
Use code RUNNINGLONG30 for 30% off your first month of Vert.run training.

📲 Follow @vert.runDownload the app and start your personalized training at Vert.run

Francesco’s links:Instagram | X | Strava | Website

Dylan Walker joins host Francesco Puppi for an honest and inspiring conversation about what it really takes to transform your life through running — from starting at 240 lbs with no plan or fitness, to completing ultras, crossing the Alps in the Transalpine Run, and preparing for his first 100-mile race.

They dive into the realities behind long-term progress: coping with pain when it shows up in every race, training for mountain events while living at sea level, and why community and support matter more than split times.

Dylan also reflects on the deeper lessons the sport has taught him — discipline, resilience, patience, and the courage to sign up for challenges that feel far beyond your comfort zone.
If you’ve ever doubted whether you can take on a big goal, start from zero, or rebuild yourself through running, this conversation will stay with you for a long time.
What you’ll learn
• The mindset that helps runners manage pain in long races
• Why the trail community creates such powerful connections
• How to train for elevation without mountains
• What it feels like to complete the Transalpine Run
• Why anyone — with time and structure — can aim for big challenges
• Dylan’s next goal: a 100-mile race crossing an entire continent
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

🏃‍♂️ Want to train smarter, not harder?
Use code RUNNINGLONG30 for 30% off your first month of Vert.run training.

📲 Follow @vert.run
Download the app and start your plan at vert.run
Francesco’s links:
Instagram | X | Strava | Website

Mario Fraioli joins host Francesco Puppi for an honest and thought-provoking conversation about the modern state of running — from content overload and algorithm fatigue, to what it really means to “go one more.”

They dive deep into the balance between performance and storytelling, the illusion of social media success, and why learning to go one less might be the most underrated skill in both training and life.

Mario also shares lessons from over 20 years in the sport — as an athlete, coach, and writer — reflecting on how running culture has evolved, what’s changed for the better, and what still needs work.

If you’ve ever felt the pressure to do more, post more, or prove more, this conversation will remind you what truly matters.

What you’ll learn
• Why “Go One Less” might be the key to long-term progress
• How social media reshaped what it means to be an athlete
• Why performance still matters more than followers
• How to manage input, focus, and balance in an always-on world
• The lessons 20+ years in running can teach about longevity and mindset

🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

🏃‍♂️ Want to train smarter, not harder?
Use code RUNNINGLONG30 for 30% off your first month of Vert.run training.

📲 Follow @vert.run
Download the app and start your plan at vert.run
Francesco’s links:
Instagram | X | Strava | Website

Vert.run co-founders Moi Jiménez and Max Keith join host Francesco Puppi for a deep conversation on the evolving trail running scene in Latin America, the return of The North Face Endurance Challenge Chile, and the cultural roots that make South American trail running so unique.

They dive into the growing presence of Latin American athletes on the world stage, the challenges of distance, visibility, and sponsorship, and what it takes to build a truly global and inclusive sport.

Later, the trio breaks down the latest evolution inside the Vert.run app — the new Athlete Timeline and VIBE Score — exploring how balancing life stress, recovery, and training load can help athletes train smarter, not harder.

If you’ve ever wondered how to align your life and your training, or how the future of trail running is being shaped across continents — this one’s for you.

What you’ll learn
Why the Latin American trail scene is booming

How geography, access, and opportunity shape athletes

The comeback of The North Face Endurance Challenge Chile

What the new Vert.run “Athlete Timeline” and “VIBE Score” mean for your training

Why doing less can sometimes make you a stronger runner

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Want to try VertPro?
Use code RUNNINGLONG30 for 30% off your first month of Vert.run training.

Follow @vert.runDownload the app and sign up at vert.run
Francesco’s links:
Instagram | Twitter | Strava | Website