October 15, 2025
A.I., as in Anti-Intellectual
People who express concern about the use of AI in schools often focus on how it allows students to get away with something (by using OpenAI to write their essays). But shouldn't we be talking more about its potential effects on teaching and learning than whether it will impede our ability to evaluate students? The problem is not just that we seem to be overestimating the capabilities of LLMs but that we seem to be underestimating the essence of education, which is a process, not merely a series of products. Moreover, is it really a math or English teacher's responsibility to train students in how to use AI? At best, that skill is quite different from learning to reason through a problem, read deeply, or organize one's thoughts. At worst, AI offers a way for students to avoid doing those things.
RESOURCES:
Research:
Hamsta Bastani et al., "Generative AI Can Harm Learning," 2024 (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4895486)
Nataliya Kosmyna et al., "Your Brain on ChatGPT," 2025 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.08872)
Michael Gerlich, "AI Tools in Society," 2025 (https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4698/15/1/6)
Activism:
https://against-a-i.com/
https://stopgenai.com/
https://openletter.earth/an-open-letter-from-educators-who-refuse-the-call-to-adopt-genai-in-education-cb4aee75
Other critiques:
This episode overlaps with a recent essay by Alfie Kohn ("The Chatbot in the Classroom, the Forklift at the Gym" - https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/ai/), which contains dozens of links to provocative discussions of AI by other writers.
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!
Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn
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27:42
Death by Civics
October 1, 2025
Death by Civics
A Conversation with Joel Westheimer About the Role of Education in Democratic Life
Suppose you wanted young people to develop a commitment to democracy, particularly at a time when it's under assault. How would you do that? Not by creating a school culture in which following the rules is valued more than critical thinking. And not by offering conventional civics courses with mind-numbing recitations of facts about how government is supposed to work. There's a big difference between teaching about a country's political system (or even about democracy), on the one hand, and preparing students to be active participants in a democratic society, on the other. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a lively conversation with educator Joel Westheimer, a professor at the University of Ottawa, who reflects on how even young children, with their natural concern about fairness, can be helped to reflect on democracy. But at what point does the promotion of democratic values shade into indoctrination? Conversely, when does a commitment to valuing multiple perspectives lapse into relativism? And is progressive teaching sufficient, or even necessary, for developing a commitment to democratic ideals?
RESOURCES:
Joel Westheimer, What Kind of Citizen?: Educating Our Children for the Common Good, rev. ed. (Teachers College Press, 2024)
Joel Westheimer, ed., Pledging Allegiance: The Politics of Patriotism in America's Schools (Teachers College Press, 2007)
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!
Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn
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1:05:57
The Failure of Failure
September 15, 2025
The Failure of Failure
The notion that kids today have it too easy and would benefit from more experiences with failure is no longer a surprising, contrarian claim; it has become the conventional wisdom. But it's dead wrong on two levels: Most children deal with frustration and failure quite a lot, and those experiences tend not to be beneficial, according to research. Either naïveté or conservative ideology leads many adults to believe that when students fall short, they'll react by trying harder next time. But more commonly students are trapped in a vicious cycle such that they're even more likely to fail again -- and they're also apt to lose interest in what they're doing and to prefer easier tasks. Educators and parents would do well to realize that the supposed benefits of failure are vastly overrated.
RESOURCES:
Lauren Eskreis-Winkler and Ayelet Fishbach, "Not Learning from Failure - the Greatest Failure of All," Psychological Science 30 (2019): 1733-44
Lauren Eskreis-Winkler et al., "The Exaggerated Benefits of Failure," Journal of Experimental Psychology - General 153 (2024): 1920-37
Ann K. Boggiano et al., "Competing Theoretical Analyses of Helplessness," Journal of Experimental Child Psychology 55 (1993): 194-207
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!
Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn
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Bad Signs
September 1, 2025
Bad Signs
The posters and signs adorning school walls speak volumes about the people who put them there, revealing a surprising amount about their views of children, their assumptions about learning, and even their beliefs about human nature. There's the enforced positivity of slogans that basically tell students: "Have a nice day....or else," the individualistic worldview of inspirational slogans with their messages of strenuous uplift, the chirpy banalities airily informing kids that structural barriers don't exist: All they need is perseverance and a dream, so they have only themselves to blame if they fail to achieve greatness. Nothing preserves the current arrangements of power more than messages that ignore the current arrangements of power. To see this principle in action, just visit a school -- particularly one in a low-income neighborhood -- and read the writing on the walls.
RESOURCES
- Demotivators: https://despair.com/collections/posters
- Barbara Ehrenreich: Bright-Sided: How Positive Thinking Is Undermining America (Metropolitan, 2009) (https://tinyurl.com/yr9vew3u)
A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!
Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn
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26:24
Confusing Harder with Better
August 15, 2025
Confusing Harder with Better
What do the following have in common?
a) parents who don't seem particularly concerned about whether what their kids are doing in school is engaging or meaningful, but are quick to complain if their assignments aren't sufficiently challenging
b) people who assume that Advanced Placement classes must be the best that a high school has to offer just because these classes are really tough
c) proponents of school reform who use the language of "rigor" and "raising the bar"
d) legislators and administrators who require students to take standardized tests that many successful adults would struggle to pass
The common denominator here is the deep-rooted assumption that, where schooling is concerned, higher quality is basically equivalent to greater difficulty. This episode of Kohn's Zone explores how profoundly this misconception has shaped our understanding of schooling.
A note from Alfie Kohn:
If you've been enjoying, or at least listening to, the podcast but have put off doing your part to support it, I am pleased to inform you that it is not too late to do so. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so today would be even better. Microphones, as my father might have said, do not grow on trees. Please consider a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event -- to keep us ad-free and unpaywalled. Thanks!
Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn
Over more than a third of a century, Alfie Kohn has offered a multifaceted defense of progressive education as well as research-based critiques of rewards and punishments, grades, standardized testing, homework, competition, and other aspects of traditional schooling (and parenting). Each episode of Kohn’s Zone will offer 20-30 minutes of provocative reflections on a topic having to do with teaching and learning — or with human behavior more generally; occasional longer segments will feature conversations with leading experts in education. Watch this space for new episodes, which will appear as if by magic every two weeks or so. You can listen here, or, better yet, on the podcast’s home, AlfieKohn.org/podcasts, which offers other resources. And to support us, please visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio. ART: Abi Kohn.
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